[MAIPC] NNI question

Tue Mar 20 08:15:17 PDT 2018

 As a side note...one factor I used to consider was my storage and equipment and "arsenal" of herbicides. As almost all of my treatments were cut stump or hack and squirt, and rarely foliar, I enjoyed thinking less about what went in and out of my containers and equipment and segregating containers and equipment, and used almost exclusively triclopyr. But I also know I'm eating and drinking a fair bit of glyphosate in my foods these days, so didn't personally want more exposure to it (how's that for an odd reason to use a different chemical) and I also had a personal vendetta against glyphosate due to it's origins and gaslighting of it's original manufacturer (personal perspective/personal values). But I also was the world's most careful user of product, and almost never got the product on anything but the stumps or bark. Cost was not really an issue due to how little we applied in our targeted treatments. 
I'd be interested to hear success on clonal species and layering plants. Triclopyr was very effective against Viburnum dilitatum which was a proficient layering species, and on clonal Viburnum sieboldii (this is going back almost 10 years ago).
Mary
    On Tuesday, March 20, 2018, 10:52:45 AM EDT, Art Gover <aeg2 at psu.edu> wrote:  

 One other point I failed to make - I am assuming this is a comparison between glyphosate and a water-soluble formulation of triclopyr (e.g. ‘Garlon 3A’ or ‘Vastlan’). Comparing glyphosate to an oil-soluble triclopyr gets into some other questions. In the context of treating freshly-cut, low-cut stumps, a water-soluble stump treatment mixture would be useful.

Be well.

Art

Penn State Wildland Weed Management
116 ASI Building
University Park, PA  16802

(814) 863-9904
(814) 863-6139 FAX
http://plantscience.psu.edu/wildland

> On Mar 20, 2018, at 10:46, Art Gover <aeg2 at psu.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Robert.
> 
> 1. Can you shed light on this debate regarding use of glyphosate vs. triclopyr for stump treatment?
> 
> 2. I have never experienced any response differences in the field to suggest that triclopyr is markedly better than glyphosate for stump treatment.
> 
> 3. On the issue of soil behavior, I would like to offer some clarification. First, soil persistence and soil activity are very different. The average soil half-life, under field conditions, is similar for the two molecules. The Herbicide Handbook, Ninth Edition lists the average field, soil half-life of triclopyr as 30 days, while that for glyphosate is 47 days. However, triclopyr is mobile in the soil, while glyphosate is generally not, as it strongly binds to soil particles due the phosphate group of the glyphosate molecule.
> 
> Operationally then, I would shy away from triclopyr where I anticipate a heavy dosage due to stem density, as the probability of root absorption by non-target species is greater.
> 
> Be well.
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> Penn State Wildland Weed Management
> 116 ASI Building
> University Park, PA  16802
> 
> (814) 863-9904
> (814) 863-6139 FAX
> http://plantscience.psu.edu/wildland
> 
>> On Mar 20, 2018, at 08:30, Servis, Robert <Robert.Servis at montgomeryparks.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning All,
>> I sent this yesterday but may have sent it to the wrong list serve maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org, which may not have gone through…(I don’t know how these list serves work exactly 😊 ), so I’m trying again today  
>> I just have a quick question that I was hoping someone could answer.
>> The debate has arisen recently as to the need to use Triclopyr over Glyphosate for cut stump treatments
>> Is there any reason to think that Glyphosate used in a cut stump treatment at 25% (mixed with water) would not work to control the following species:  English Ivy, Winter Creeper, Oriental Bittersweet, Porcelain Berry or Multiflora rose?
>> (as long as the cut stump was made flush and as close to the ground as possible.  And also assuming that the timing and weather conditions were appropriate for this treatment)
>> 
>> In my experience of 15+ yrs applying herbicides…a 25% mix of Glyphosate for cut/stump treatment, has certainly seemed sufficient to kill these species.  The only one of these that I may choose to use anything other than glyphosate on may be the Bitter Sweet vines.  For some species such as Kudzu, Wisteria, Bittersweet I would tend to use Triclopyr (Garlon 3A) at 25% for a cut stump treatment as they have tended to respond a little better to Triclopyr than Glyphosate, in my experience.
>> Given that the site in question here, has a scheduled retreatment or two over the next growing season, I do not see the harm in using Glyphosate for all initial cut stump treatments, and if bittersweet (or anything else) seems to be non-responsive under proper cutting/treating methods, then bring in the Triclopyr and give that a shot.
>> 
>> It just seems to me to be unnecessary to use Triclopyr from the beginning, but I wanted to pick the brains of my highly respected colleagues in the Vegetation Management Field (You all), and see what the response is!
>> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! 
>> 
>> As we know Triclopyr is much more expensive than Glyphosate, and persists in the soil longer.  it is always my goal to be as environmentally friendly and economical when making necessary pesticide applications, as long as the same results can be achieved.  
>> 
>> 
>> Robert Servis
>> Natural Resource Specialist- Vegetation ecology
>> M-NCPPC / Park Planning and Stewardship division
>> Robert.Servis at montgomeryparks.org
>> (Cell)-  (301)875-2202
>> (Office)-  (301)962-1343
>> 
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