[MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

Sun Oct 11 12:44:50 PDT 2020

Hmmm… I suggest not taking “discretion” too far. I oversee 1,200 acres of NC Botanical Garden nature preserves (aka State Property) and do not approve of seed collection without a permit. Many of the more desirable plants are those we have planted toward restoration, and we want those seeds to spread (and not be collected).

Likewise – if collecting on public land where a permit is required – unpermitted seed collectors (if “caught”) can make it more difficult for others to obtain permits for legitimate collection.

Just food for thought.

Johnny Randall

From: Richard Gardner <rtgardner3 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 2:11 PM
To: Marc Imlay <ialm at erols.com>; rodswalker at aol.com; maipc-request at lists.maipc.org; maipc at lists.maipc.org; Randall, Johnny <jrandall at email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

Discretion. If there are abundant seeds and/or plants I have no problem taking a few quietly. If there are only a few plants I leave them alone.

I have learned if I can quietly and discretely do what I want there are few problems. Doing something while wearing flaming blue in the middle of the day in a crowded park is not a good idea. Dull colors at dawn is a much better idea.

On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 01:46:51 PM EDT, Randall, Johnny <jrandall at email.unc.edu> wrote:

There are various regulations depending on the public land ownership. For example, Forest Service lands are open for collection, whereas National and State Parks (at least in NC) require permits.

Johnny Randall

From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org> On Behalf Of Marc Imlay
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 1:43 PM
To: rodswalker at aol.com; maipc-request at lists.maipc.org; maipc at lists.maipc.org
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

If you live adjacent to a natural area of a park an you transfer a few specimens of a relatively abundant native species to your property, you are expanding the park! This carefully done approach was accepted at some of the parks I have been  involved with. And many neighbors joined in. Marc

From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> On Behalf Of rodswalker at aol.com<mailto:rodswalker at aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 11:59 AM
To: maipc-request at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-request at lists.maipc.org>; maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

What are the rules around collecting seeds off of public lands?  Is it forbidden or ok?  If forbidden, could it be changed?

Some of us have lands with an abundance of native plants with an abundance of seeds this time of year.  If there are people looking to forage for native seeds, perhaps we could set up a list of sources that others could explore for seeds?

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Sent: Sun, Oct 11, 2020 10:41 am
Subject: MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

  1. Native Garden Friend Challenge (Nathan Hartshorne)

  2. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (MARGARET L CHATHAM)

  3. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (Nathan Hartshorne)

  4. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (Muth, Norris  (MUTH))

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:28:55 -0400

From: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>

To: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>

Subject: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge

Message-ID:

    <CAOWHdwDjJFa2AOwEKyy23_HXZ8X3noRH5m3yT3T9NTgW1q=EAg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:EAg at mail.gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the

effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't.  Last

year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and

giving them away, even planting them at friends'.  Obviously we don't want

to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a

push that many people need.  And once they see the bees going nuts over bee

balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the

native nurseries.

So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and

preparing for next spring.  Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and

cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide

variety.  Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to

your region, some local regions can be very specific.

If you do decide to do this, please let me know.

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Message: 2

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:38:01 -0400

From: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>

To: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>

Cc: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>

Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge

Message-ID: <AE27E221-CAC1-491C-A097-2746738D6553 at verizon.net<mailto:AE27E221-CAC1-491C-A097-2746738D6553 at verizon.net>>

Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=utf-8

Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to collect locally native seed for this practice.

> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>> wrote:

>

> We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't.  Last year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and giving them away, even planting them at friends'.  Obviously we don't want to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a push that many people need.  And once they see the bees going nuts over bee balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the native nurseries.

>

> So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and preparing for next spring.  Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide variety.  Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to your region, some local regions can be very specific.

>

> If you do decide to do this, please let me know.

> _______________________________________________

> MAIPC mailing list

> MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>

> http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org

------------------------------

Message: 3

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:51:49 -0400

From: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>

To: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>

Cc: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>

Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge

Message-ID:

    <CAOWHdwA2jcpmvRbHNM8VJ3gYcPna8Ehe96DKsFduvRFQoZfH+w at mail.gmail.com<mailto:w at mail.gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Good point.  There's always a bit of controversy about that.  I have seen

people say never to collect because then there are fewer seeds in those

wild areas, and I've seen people say to collect the local seeds so you have

local genetics.  Another issue is that it is very common that the places we

know to collect seeds (aside from very common plants like goldenrod) are

derived from bought seeds, so I'm not sure there's much difference.  I have

done both methods, but I do know that the "wild" seeds I have collected

were from plants seeded by someone else with the exception of milkweed,

goldenrod, and some trees.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM MARGARET L CHATHAM <

margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>> wrote:

> Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to

> collect locally native seed for this practice.

>

> > On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>

> wrote:

> >

> > We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the

> effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't.  Last

> year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and

> giving them away, even planting them at friends'.  Obviously we don't want

> to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a

> push that many people need.  And once they see the bees going nuts over bee

> balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the

> native nurseries.

> >

> > So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and

> preparing for next spring.  Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and

> cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide

> variety.  Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to

> your region, some local regions can be very specific.

> >

> > If you do decide to do this, please let me know.

> > _______________________________________________

> > MAIPC mailing list

> > MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>

> > http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org

>

>

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Message: 4

Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:41:44 +0000

From: "Muth, Norris  (MUTH)" <MUTH at juniata.edu<mailto:MUTH at juniata.edu>>

To: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>

Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge

Message-ID:

    <MN2PR15MB362965A9416BD90061D73808C8060 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com<mailto:MN2PR15MB362965A9416BD90061D73808C8060 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Good conversation here. I think the age old advice of not letting perfect ion be the enemy of the good is very relevant here.

Many people view directly interacting with the natural world around them as complicated and daunting. Fostering awareness and appreciation of native plants will most often be incremental. Avoiding planting invasive species can be an early step. Avoiding using non-native species in general can be another step. If we fail to plant native species because we don't have local seeds, the invasive species won't wait for us to find the perfect seed. Tree and park commissions will still be required to plant something, regardless of species or provenance. I always encourage them to do the best they can, and I try to help them understand the benefits of each small step they can make.

Best,

Norris

?

Norris Z. Muth, Ph.D.

Professor of Biology

Juniata College

1700 Moore Street ? Huntingdon, PA 16652

Office: 814-641-3632 | 1054 VLB

muthlab.org<http://muthlab.org/>

________________________________

From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> on behalf of Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>

Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:51 AM

To: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>

Cc: MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>) <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>

Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge

CAUTION: External Email

Good point.  There's always a bit of controversy about that.  I have seen people say never to collect because then there are fewer seeds in those wild areas, and I've seen people say to collect the local seeds so you have local genetics.  Another issue is that it is very common that the places we know to collect seeds (aside from very common plants like goldenrod) are derived from bought seeds, so I'm not sure there's much difference.  I have done both methods, but I do know that the "wild" seeds I have collected were from plants seeded by someone else with the exception of milkweed, goldenrod, and some trees.

On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net><mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>> wrote:

Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to collect locally native seed for this practice.

> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com><mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>> wrote:

>

> We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't.  Last year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and giving them away, even planting them at friends'.  Obviously we don't want to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a push that many people need.  And once they see the bees going nuts over bee balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the native nurseries.

>

> So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and preparing for next spring.  Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide variety.  Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to your region, some local regions can be very specific.

>

> If you do decide to do this, please let me know.

> _______________________________________________

> MAIPC mailing list

> MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org><mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>>

> http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org

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