[MAIPC] [External] Re: MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
Landsman, Andrew P
Andrew_Landsman at nps.gov
Tue Oct 13 04:15:38 PDT 2020
Apologies for being late to the conversation. It is illegal to collect seeds on National Park Service property without prior authorization through a Scientific Research and Collection Permit. The reason being that the Federal government retains ownership of anything collected from a national park. Generally, specimen collection is reserved for institutions and museums because the NPS is required to catalog and track condition of any collected specimen because of the retained ownership. We do collect and plant local seed all within the park and work with others to propagate collected seed for outplanting back into the park.
Andrew P. Landsman, Ph.D.
Office of Environmental Policy and Compliance (part-time)
United States Department of the Interior
Program Manager - Natural Resources and Compliance
C&O Canal National Historical Park
1850 Dual Highway, Suite 100
Hagerstown, MD 21740
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From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org> on behalf of Rohrbaugh, Andrew <anrohrbaug at pa.gov>
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Subject: Re: [MAIPC] [External] Re: MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
The Pennsylvania Bureau of Forestry requires folks to coordinate with us for seed collection (policy on it depends on the rarity of the species, but generally requires some level of permitting or authorization letter).
Andrew Rohrbaugh | Botanist
Pennsylvania Department of Conservation & Natural Resources
Bureau of Forestry | Ecological Services Section
PO Box 8552, 400 Market St, Harrisburg, PA 17105-8552
Cell Phone: 717.480.9054 | Office Phone: 717.705.2823
anrohrbaug at pa.gov
www.dcnr.state.pa.us<http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/>
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Subject: [External] Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
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There are various regulations depending on the public land ownership. For example, Forest Service lands are open for collection, whereas National and State Parks (at least in NC) require permits.
Johnny Randall
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Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
If you live adjacent to a natural area of a park an you transfer a few specimens of a relatively abundant native species to your property, you are expanding the park! This carefully done approach was accepted at some of the parks I have been involved with. And many neighbors joined in. Marc
From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> On Behalf Of rodswalker at aol.com<mailto:rodswalker at aol.com>
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Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
What are the rules around collecting seeds off of public lands? Is it forbidden or ok? If forbidden, could it be changed?
Some of us have lands with an abundance of native plants with an abundance of seeds this time of year. If there are people looking to forage for native seeds, perhaps we could set up a list of sources that others could explore for seeds?
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Subject: MAIPC Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
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Today's Topics:
1. Native Garden Friend Challenge (Nathan Hartshorne)
2. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (MARGARET L CHATHAM)
3. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (Nathan Hartshorne)
4. Re: Native Garden Friend Challenge (Muth, Norris (MUTH))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:28:55 -0400
From: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>
To: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
Subject: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge
Message-ID:
<CAOWHdwDjJFa2AOwEKyy23_HXZ8X3noRH5m3yT3T9NTgW1q=EAg at mail.gmail.com<mailto:EAg at mail.gmail.com>>
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We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the
effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't. Last
year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and
giving them away, even planting them at friends'. Obviously we don't want
to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a
push that many people need. And once they see the bees going nuts over bee
balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the
native nurseries.
So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and
preparing for next spring. Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and
cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide
variety. Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to
your region, some local regions can be very specific.
If you do decide to do this, please let me know.
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:38:01 -0400
From: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>
To: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>
Cc: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge
Message-ID: <AE27E221-CAC1-491C-A097-2746738D6553 at verizon.net<mailto:AE27E221-CAC1-491C-A097-2746738D6553 at verizon.net>>
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Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to collect locally native seed for this practice.
> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't. Last year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and giving them away, even planting them at friends'. Obviously we don't want to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a push that many people need. And once they see the bees going nuts over bee balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the native nurseries.
>
> So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and preparing for next spring. Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide variety. Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to your region, some local regions can be very specific.
>
> If you do decide to do this, please let me know.
> _______________________________________________
> MAIPC mailing list
> MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 09:51:49 -0400
From: Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>
To: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>
Cc: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge
Message-ID:
<CAOWHdwA2jcpmvRbHNM8VJ3gYcPna8Ehe96DKsFduvRFQoZfH+w at mail.gmail.com<mailto:w at mail.gmail.com>>
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Good point. There's always a bit of controversy about that. I have seen
people say never to collect because then there are fewer seeds in those
wild areas, and I've seen people say to collect the local seeds so you have
local genetics. Another issue is that it is very common that the places we
know to collect seeds (aside from very common plants like goldenrod) are
derived from bought seeds, so I'm not sure there's much difference. I have
done both methods, but I do know that the "wild" seeds I have collected
were from plants seeded by someone else with the exception of milkweed,
goldenrod, and some trees.
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM MARGARET L CHATHAM <
margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>> wrote:
> Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to
> collect locally native seed for this practice.
>
> > On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> > We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the
> effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't. Last
> year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and
> giving them away, even planting them at friends'. Obviously we don't want
> to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a
> push that many people need. And once they see the bees going nuts over bee
> balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the
> native nurseries.
> >
> > So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and
> preparing for next spring. Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and
> cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide
> variety. Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to
> your region, some local regions can be very specific.
> >
> > If you do decide to do this, please let me know.
> > _______________________________________________
> > MAIPC mailing list
> > MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>
> > http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.maipc.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmaipc-maipc.org&data=02%7C01%7Canrohrbaug%40pa.gov%7C24dada95a0c740c245d308d86e0da279%7C418e284101284dd59b6c47fc5a9a1bde%7C0%7C0%7C637380352131079444&sdata=2sJAsIK1e8%2BUI03aE4e18TkfftZDw9GgdOnNUAdaGt4%3D&reserved=0>
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>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2020 14:41:44 +0000
From: "Muth, Norris (MUTH)" <MUTH at juniata.edu<mailto:MUTH at juniata.edu>>
To: "MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>)" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge
Message-ID:
<MN2PR15MB362965A9416BD90061D73808C8060 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com<mailto:MN2PR15MB362965A9416BD90061D73808C8060 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>>
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Good conversation here. I think the age old advice of not letting perfect ion be the enemy of the good is very relevant here.
Many people view directly interacting with the natural world around them as complicated and daunting. Fostering awareness and appreciation of native plants will most often be incremental. Avoiding planting invasive species can be an early step. Avoiding using non-native species in general can be another step. If we fail to plant native species because we don't have local seeds, the invasive species won't wait for us to find the perfect seed. Tree and park commissions will still be required to plant something, regardless of species or provenance. I always encourage them to do the best they can, and I try to help them understand the benefits of each small step they can make.
Best,
Norris
?
Norris Z. Muth, Ph.D.
Professor of Biology
Juniata College
1700 Moore Street ? Huntingdon, PA 16652
Office: 814-641-3632 | 1054 VLB
muthlab.org<http://muthlab.org/<https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmuthlab.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Canrohrbaug%40pa.gov%7C24dada95a0c740c245d308d86e0da279%7C418e284101284dd59b6c47fc5a9a1bde%7C0%7C0%7C637380352131089412&sdata=i2EqINSEfeAaXOMoyzTNdMShc1EBaZLidE95J58Wnbo%3D&reserved=0>>
________________________________
From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> on behalf of Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:51 AM
To: MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>
Cc: MAIPC Listserve (maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>) <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Native Garden Friend Challenge
CAUTION: External Email
Good point. There's always a bit of controversy about that. I have seen people say never to collect because then there are fewer seeds in those wild areas, and I've seen people say to collect the local seeds so you have local genetics. Another issue is that it is very common that the places we know to collect seeds (aside from very common plants like goldenrod) are derived from bought seeds, so I'm not sure there's much difference. I have done both methods, but I do know that the "wild" seeds I have collected were from plants seeded by someone else with the exception of milkweed, goldenrod, and some trees.
On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 9:38 AM MARGARET L CHATHAM <margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net><mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net<mailto:margaret.chatham at verizon.net>>> wrote:
Lovely idea ? but where did those boughten seed evolve? How much better to collect locally native seed for this practice.
> On Oct 11, 2020, at 9:28 AM, Nathan Hartshorne <nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com><mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com<mailto:nshartshorne at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> We all have friends who would be interested in a native garden, but the effort and cost feel prohibitive, even though they really aren't. Last year, I decided to start experimenting with growing the plants myself and giving them away, even planting them at friends'. Obviously we don't want to take business away from the local native nurseries, but this creates a push that many people need. And once they see the bees going nuts over bee balm, goldenrod, etc. they can really get into it and then support the native nurseries.
>
> So now that we're well into fall, consider buying seeds online and preparing for next spring. Packets can have a couple hundred seeds and cost a couple dollars, so it's not difficult to get started with a wide variety. Just make sure that the native seeds you purchase are native to your region, some local regions can be very specific.
>
> If you do decide to do this, please let me know.
> _______________________________________________
> MAIPC mailing list
> MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org><mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at lists.maipc.org>>
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