[MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3

Sat Dec 3 07:08:53 PST 2022

alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
"we need to stay angry, and stay woke"

----- Original Message -----
From: "N Virginia Woolridge" <gingerwoolridge at comcast.net>
To: "maipc" <maipc at lists.maipc.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2022 9:58:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] MAIPC Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3

I agree with Rod, too. 
At a time when many folks - outside of this group, of course - do not know native flora from non-native, and non-natives (invasive and otherwise are contributing to legit species loss (insects, birds, canopy trees and so on), it is good to have a common name that speaks to provenance. 
I don’t know what woke means. 
Ginger

Co-author, “Essential Native Trees and Shrubs for the Eastern United States”
www.saveourtreestogether.org

> On Dec 3, 2022, at 9:44 AM, maipc-request at lists.maipc.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Invasive plant nomenclature (Alonso Abugattas Jr)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2022 14:44:22 +0000
> From: Alonso Abugattas Jr <Aabugattas at arlingtonva.us>
> To: "carolallen at erols.com" <carolallen at erols.com>, Rod Simmons
> 	<Rod.Simmons at alexandriava.gov>
> Cc: Patricia Greenberg <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>, Don
> 	Callihan <don_ihan at hotmail.com>, rowena <rowena at blueridgeprism.org>,
> 	maipc <maipc at lists.maipc.org>, "Debarros, Nelson"
> 	<Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov>, Greg Zell
> 	<gregory.zell at verizon.net>, John Parrish <lifeonearth at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> Message-ID:
> 	<BL0PR06MB4177BAB874ECC27428DDB7E2AC169 at BL0PR06MB4177.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I totally agree with Rod.
> 
> Alonso
> 
> From: carolallen at erols.com <carolallen at erols.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2022 7:08 AM
> To: Rod Simmons <Rod.Simmons at alexandriava.gov>
> Cc: Patricia Greenberg <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>; Don Callihan <don_ihan at hotmail.com>; rowena <rowena at blueridgeprism.org>; maipc <maipc at lists.maipc.org>; Debarros, Nelson <Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov>; Greg Zell <gregory.zell at verizon.net>; Alonso Abugattas Jr <Aabugattas at arlingtonva.us>; John Parrish <lifeonearth at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> 
> EXTERNAL EMAIL
> Thanks, Rod. Well said.
> 
> ________________________________
> From: "Rod Simmons" <Rod.Simmons at alexandriava.gov<mailto:Rod.Simmons at alexandriava.gov>>
> To: "Patricia Greenberg" <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>>, "Don Callihan" <don_ihan at hotmail.com<mailto:don_ihan at hotmail.com>>, "rowena" <rowena at blueridgeprism.org<mailto:rowena at blueridgeprism.org>>, "maipc" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
> Cc: "Debarros, Nelson" <Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov>>, "Greg Zell" <gregory.zell at verizon.net<mailto:gregory.zell at verizon.net>>, "Alonso Abugattas" <Aabugattas at arlingtonva.us<mailto:Aabugattas at arlingtonva.us>>, "John Parrish" <lifeonearth at verizon.net<mailto:lifeonearth at verizon.net>>
> Sent: Friday, December 2, 2022 11:43:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> 
> Personally, I really don't see a problem here.  As M.L. Fernald once said, botany is a "guileless profession".
> 
> "Personally, I don't want to reference being from Asia, Africa, South America or anywhere else negatively and see nothing wrong with these origins (I'm from South America)."  Agreed!  I think this whole thing is a non-starter.  If folks' intentions are good - and they certainly are in our collective family, in my experience - then we should leave it at that.
> 
> We've got American Beech and European Beech.  American Elm, Siberian Elm, and Chinese Elm.  American, Japanese, and English hollies.  American, European, Chinese, and Japanese chestnuts.  Etc., etc.
> 
> Trust me, they curse American goldenrods in the UK as much as they curse American sumacs in Africa and as much as we curse Oriental Bittersweet here.  They all curse the weed and human folly - not a country or people.  As Pogo famously said, "We have met the enemy and he is us".
> 
> I've not heard once from anyone that they feel threatened or impugned by a plant referenced in name from their country or place of origin.   To do so would be to anthropomorphize nature!
> 
> The very few times I've ever heard of such is through deliberately provocative "journalism" from the New York Times many years ago by some cat who was trying to push a non-existent race card for a story.
> 
> Biology ain't woke.  We shouldn't fall victim to such nonsense.
> 
> Disclaimer: The above is solely my opinions and not necessarily that of the City of Alexandria.
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> on behalf of Greenberg, Patricia <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>>
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2022 10:36 AM
> To: Don Callihan <don_ihan at hotmail.com<mailto:don_ihan at hotmail.com>>; Rowena Zimmermann <rowena at blueridgeprism.org<mailto:rowena at blueridgeprism.org>>; maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org> <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
> Cc: Debarros, Nelson <Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov>>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here is the link for the webinar on thoughtful nomenclature: Watch the video<https://video.vt.edu/media/VMN+CE+WebinarA+What%27s+In+a+NameF+Thoughtful+Nomenclature+Makes+a+Difference/1_r4imzpls<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.vt.edu%2Fmedia%2FVMN%2BCE%2BWebinarA%2BWhat%2527s%2BIn%2Ba%2BNameF%2BThoughtful%2BNomenclature%2BMakes%2Ba%2BDifference%2F1_r4imzpls&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zAvTYxPI55%2BP9yHPMJoTqjs%2Fc%2B3o6r4RUoMvPJZStPE%3D&reserved=0>> (Note: this version of the video has machine-generated captions. Caption editing is in progress, and the new version with edited captions will be posted here in approximately two weeks.)
> 
> I appreciate the feedback and welcome more conversation on the topic.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the key when having conversations with the public about invasive species is to focus the topic on supporting wildlife by making space for native species to thrive. Specifically emphasizing the fact that natives provide more healthy food sources and habitat for songbirds, pollinators and other wildlife helps keep the conversation positive and uplifting. Unfortunately, the way we talk about managing invasive species and also reference their origins may and has been construed to similar conversations about immigrant peoples in a negative way. Personally, I don't want to reference being from Asia, Africa, South America or anywhere else negatively and see nothing wrong with these origins (I'm from South America). However, the conversations are happening and something needs to be cleared up so we can have constructive conversations about creating healthy wildlife habitat and avoid feeling guilt about talking about killing invasive plants.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the issue with negative connotation dependent on where you live (i.e. regions of higher immigrant populations vs. less immigrant populations)? Is using the term "invasive" in the place of Asian, Oriental, etc. enough or do we need a more useful common name? The work done in Minnesota has started changing names using Asian or that reference the plants' origins.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
> Patricia Pearl Greenberg
> 
> Invasive Management Area (IMA) Program Manager
> 
> Office: 703-324-8673
> 
> (She/Her/Hers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> On Behalf Of Don Callihan
> Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2022 11:47 AM
> To: Rowena Zimmermann <rowena at blueridgeprism.org<mailto:rowena at blueridgeprism.org>>; maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> 
> 
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is such an important conversation and I hope our community can come to consensus on what to maintain and how to make changes where they are needed.
> 
> Is it possible for someone to share the Virginia Master Naturalists webinar with any suggested attribution so that it can be used by others?
> 
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> Don Callihan
> 
> Cockeysville, MD 21030
> 
> 410-961-8132 (cellular)
> 
> don_ihan at hotmail.com<mailto:don_ihan at hotmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
> From: Rowena Zimmermann <rowena at blueridgeprism.org<mailto:rowena at blueridgeprism.org>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 11:45 PM
> To: maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Patricia and Norris,
> 
> 
> 
> This has been an issue we are very aware of at Blue Ridge PRISM and last year we made the decision to use the term "Asiatic Bittersweet" rather than "Oriental Bittersweet." However, at this time we continue to use terms like Japanese stiltgrass, Norway maple, and English ivy as they seem to be more indicative of the origin of the species rather than any derogatory intent.  As an Asian woman, I've encountered language out there that makes me uncomfortable (e.g. articles that refer to some invasive plants as "Asian intruders" or "alien invaders") because the terms, although not intended in this aspect, have been used against Asian (and other immigrant) people in the past and continue to be used that way.  So, it is more than just plant nomenclature but also how we talk about invasive plants in general that make up the bigger picture on how we as a whole can be more mindful and respectful of how we use our words in this field.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm grateful to be part of the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Rowena Zimmermann
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Rowena Zimmermann
> 
> Director of Communications & Outreach
> 
> Blue Ridge PRISM
> 
> rowena at blueridgeprism.org<mailto:rowena at blueridgeprism.org>
> 
> 
> 
> Blue Ridge PRISM<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblueridgeprism.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3%2F2JbrJUhE%2Br7dhAki3tMwOl%2F8nCdzMF55N2gjWfDrw%3D&reserved=0> is a partnership for regional invasive species management in Virginia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 6:09 PM <maipc-request at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-request at lists.maipc.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Nomenclature (Muth, Norris (MUTH))
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:07:53 +0000
> From: "Muth, Norris (MUTH)" <MUTH at juniata.edu<mailto:MUTH at juniata.edu>>
> To: "MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org>" <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Nomenclature
> Message-ID:
>        <MN2PR15MB362942627132B644883AD22DC80D9 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com<mailto:MN2PR15MB362942627132B644883AD22DC80D9 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com>>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Patricia,
> I?m a big fan of all the good work you?re doing. Thanks for brining up this important and interesting subject.
> 
> Lots of the words that figure into both common and scientific names are derogatory and/or offensive. In most of the cases below I have mixed feelings about searching for alternate common names (with the exception of bittersweet which I have seen some preferring the term Asiatic bittersweet). I know that in other contexts (e.g. COVID and flu, etc.) some people have tried (and sometimes succeeded) to turn the names of regions into something with negative connotations. In the recent case of the coronavirus outbreak some people chose specifically to use terminology that wasn?t common parlance to stoke these negative associations. Thankfully, I don?t see the parallel between that abhorrent behavior and the botanical examples below.
> 
> To me, the names Japanese stiltgrass and the like merely refer to locations that the species originate from (likely somewhat inaccurately ? but being accurate with biological names is a different problem). We can all agree that there?s nothing offensive about being from Japan, China, Norway, or anywhere. What would definitely be troubling is if people were pushing messages that these are anything other than purely descriptive when using these terms. I admit that could certainly be possible, but I haven?t yet seen that myself.
> 
> What I certainly want to avoid is using offensive terminology to describe plants (and anything else), and I think people are doing great work in places to address that (e.g. spongy moth). I also want to avoid (and I know very well that you aren?t suggesting this yourself ? but it could arise from renaming efforts) the idea that being from any of these countries is a bad thing.
> 
> I also want to avoid unnecessary confusion around invasive species listing and management, which could be an unfortunate byproduct of renaming species that are still for sale. If someone can buy Norway maple, I want to make sure I?m able to tell them what to avoid in the same easy-to-understand terms.
> 
> If there is more light to be shed on this discussion I would be grateful to hear them. Thanks again for bringing up this interesting and important issue.
> 
> Norris
> 
> 
> ?
> Norris Z. Muth, Ph.D. (he/him)
> Juniata College
> Zoom meeting<https://juniata.zoom.us/my/muthlab<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjuniata.zoom.us%2Fmy%2Fmuthlab&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mizMpJ19d62BHE%2BDYxidOu%2BnSyWceWjS1yO%2FdJRd4lo%3D&reserved=0>>
> muthlab.org<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmuthlab.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nADHDwaXP3YC9IpedRap88z3RyWFMwt1U3uc46Q7g14%3D&reserved=0><http://muthlab.org/<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmuthlab.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nADHDwaXP3YC9IpedRap88z3RyWFMwt1U3uc46Q7g14%3D&reserved=0>>
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org>> on behalf of Greenberg, Patricia <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 10:15:58 AM
> To: MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org<mailto:MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org> <maipc at lists.maipc.org<mailto:maipc at lists.maipc.org>>
> Subject: [MAIPC] Nomenclature
> 
> CAUTION: External Email
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> I?m continuing a conversation about the names of invasive species that feel insensitive to use. Recently, Virginia Master Naturalists held a webinar on this topic (which I haven?t watched yet).
> 
> 
> 
> What's in a Name? Thoughtful Nomenclature Makes a Difference
> Presenter: Angela Gupta, University of Minnesota Extension
> Recorded: 10 November 2022
> Watch the video<https://video.vt.edu/media/VMN+CE+WebinarA+What%27s+In+a+NameF+Thoughtful+Nomenclature+Makes+a+Difference/1_r4imzpls<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.vt.edu%2Fmedia%2FVMN%2BCE%2BWebinarA%2BWhat%2527s%2BIn%2Ba%2BNameF%2BThoughtful%2BNomenclature%2BMakes%2Ba%2BDifference%2F1_r4imzpls&data=05%7C01%7CAabugattas%40arlingtonva.us%7C401dfd48bbdc4033955908dad526f5f3%7C803548041fdf428e9f5f5091e994cf54%7C0%7C0%7C638056660584630555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=zAvTYxPI55%2BP9yHPMJoTqjs%2Fc%2B3o6r4RUoMvPJZStPE%3D&reserved=0>> (Note: this version of the video has machine-generated captions. Caption editing is in progress, and the new version with edited captions will be posted here in approximately two weeks.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning to work with our botanist to find names for invasives that reference their location of origin, such as:
> 
> Oriental bittersweet
> 
> Japanese stiltgrass
> 
> Japanese/Chinese wisterias
> 
> Chinese Holly
> 
> Japanese Holly
> 
> And others
> 
> 
> 
> My question to you is if you or people you know have started these conversations and if so, what names are you using/changing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> 
> 
> Patricia Pearl Greenberg
> Ecologist II
> 
> Invasive Management Area (IMA) Program Manager
> 
> Natural Resource Branch
> 
> Fairfax County Park Authority
> 
> Office: 703-324-8673
> 
> patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov><mailto:patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>>
> 
> (She/Her/Hers)
> 
> 
> 
> ISA Certified Arborist, MA-6067A
> 
> ISA Tree Risk Assessment Qualified
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> End of MAIPC Digest, Vol 132, Issue 3
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