[MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature

Sat Dec 3 07:24:44 PST 2022

I will just note that I have seen some contrarian provocateurs attack
invasives folks as "nativists" and sometimes refer to the Nazis who did in
fact apply nativist ideology even to plants in some cases...  Time-honored
tactic to demonize perceived foes as Nazis.

So I think we want to be conscious that there are people who are employing
such a narrative, and we don't want to play into their hands.

That said, everything I see in this thread seems very reasonable.

For what it's worth, I wrote about some of this here, back when:

http://www.plantwhacker.com/2015/09/invasives-skeptics-and-their-nouveau.html?m=1

Cheers Steve

On Fri, Dec 2, 2022, 11:44 PM Rod Simmons <Rod.Simmons at alexandriava.gov>
wrote:

> Personally, I really don't see a problem here.  As M.L. Fernald once said,
> botany is a "guileless profession".
>
> "Personally, I don’t want to reference being from Asia, Africa, South
> America or anywhere else negatively and see nothing wrong with these
> origins (I’m from South America)."  Agreed!  I think this whole thing is a
> non-starter.  If folks' intentions are good - and they certainly are in our
> collective family, in my experience - then we should leave it at that.
>
> We've got American Beech and European Beech.  American Elm, Siberian Elm,
> and Chinese Elm.  American, Japanese, and English hollies.  American,
> European, Chinese, and Japanese chestnuts.  Etc., etc.
>
> Trust me, they curse American goldenrods in the UK as much as they curse
> American sumacs in Africa and as much as we curse Oriental Bittersweet
> here.  They all curse the weed and human folly - not a country or people.
> As Pogo famously said, "We have met the enemy and he is us".
>
> I've not heard once from anyone that they feel threatened or impugned by a
> plant referenced in name from their country or place of origin.   To do
> so would be to anthropomorphize nature!
>
> The very few times I've ever heard of such is through deliberately
> provocative "journalism" from the New York Times many years ago by some cat
> who was trying to push a non-existent race card for a story.
>
> Biology ain't woke.  We shouldn't fall victim to such nonsense.
>
> Disclaimer: The above is solely my opinions and not necessarily that of
> the City of Alexandria.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org> on behalf of Greenberg,
> Patricia <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>
> *Sent:* Monday, November 28, 2022 10:36 AM
> *To:* Don Callihan <don_ihan at hotmail.com>; Rowena Zimmermann <
> rowena at blueridgeprism.org>; maipc at lists.maipc.org <maipc at lists.maipc.org>
> *Cc:* Debarros, Nelson <Nelson.DeBarros at fairfaxcounty.gov>
> *Subject:* Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Here is the link for the webinar on thoughtful nomenclature: Watch the
> video<
> https://video.vt.edu/media/VMN+CE+WebinarA+What%27s+In+a+NameF+Thoughtful+Nomenclature+Makes+a+Difference/1_r4imzpls
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.vt.edu%2Fmedia%2FVMN%2BCE%2BWebinarA%2BWhat%2527s%2BIn%2Ba%2BNameF%2BThoughtful%2BNomenclature%2BMakes%2Ba%2BDifference%2F1_r4imzpls&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WhjH%2FH6hkj%2BDHo1y8EYXuHp2xeBRMxQAV2ulzoqfhgM%3D&reserved=0>>
> (Note: this version of the video has machine-generated captions. Caption
> editing is in progress, and the new version with edited captions will be
> posted here in approximately two weeks.)
>
> I appreciate the feedback and welcome more conversation on the topic.
>
>
>
> I think the key when having conversations with the public about invasive
> species is to focus the topic on supporting wildlife by making space for
> native species to thrive. Specifically emphasizing the fact that natives
> provide more healthy food sources and habitat for songbirds, pollinators
> and other wildlife helps keep the conversation positive and uplifting.
> Unfortunately, the way we talk about managing invasive species and also
> reference their origins may and has been construed to similar conversations
> about immigrant peoples in a negative way. Personally, I don’t want to
> reference being from Asia, Africa, South America or anywhere else
> negatively and see nothing wrong with these origins (I’m from South
> America). However, the conversations are happening and something needs to
> be cleared up so we can have constructive conversations about creating
> healthy wildlife habitat and avoid feeling guilt about talking about
> killing invasive plants.
>
>
>
> I wonder if the issue with negative connotation dependent on where you
> live (i.e. regions of higher immigrant populations vs. less immigrant
> populations)? Is using the term “invasive” in the place of Asian, Oriental,
> etc. enough or do we need a more useful common name? The work done in
> Minnesota has started changing names using Asian or that reference the
> plants’ origins.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> *Patricia Pearl Greenberg*
>
> Invasive Management Area (IMA) Program Manager
>
> *Office: 703-324-8673*
>
> *(She/Her/Hers)*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org> *On Behalf Of *Don Callihan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 23, 2022 11:47 AM
> *To:* Rowena Zimmermann <rowena at blueridgeprism.org>; maipc at lists.maipc.org
> *Subject:* Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
>
>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> This is such an important conversation and I hope our community can come
> to consensus on what to maintain and how to make changes where they are
> needed.
>
> Is it possible for someone to share the Virginia Master Naturalists
> webinar with any suggested attribution so that it can be used by others?
>
> Don
>
>
>
> *Don Callihan*
>
> Cockeysville, MD 21030
>
> 410-961-8132 (cellular)
>
> don_ihan at hotmail.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Rowena Zimmermann <rowena at blueridgeprism.org>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 22, 2022 11:45 PM
> *To:* maipc at lists.maipc.org
> *Subject:* Re: [MAIPC] Invasive plant nomenclature
>
>
>
> Hi Patricia and Norris,
>
>
>
> This has been an issue we are very aware of at Blue Ridge PRISM and last
> year we made the decision to use the term "Asiatic Bittersweet" rather than
> "Oriental Bittersweet." However, at this time we continue to use terms like
> Japanese stiltgrass, Norway maple, and English ivy as they seem to be more
> indicative of the origin of the species rather than any derogatory intent.
> As an Asian woman, I've encountered language out there that makes me
> uncomfortable (e.g. articles that refer to some invasive plants as "Asian
> intruders" or "alien invaders") because the terms, although not intended in
> this aspect, have been used against Asian (and other immigrant) people in
> the past and continue to be used that way.  So, it is more than just plant
> nomenclature but also how we talk about invasive plants in general that
> make up the bigger picture on how we as a whole can be more mindful and
> respectful of how we use our words in this field.
>
>
>
> I'm grateful to be part of the conversation.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Rowena Zimmermann
>
>
>
> --
>
> Rowena Zimmermann
>
> Director of Communications & Outreach
>
> Blue Ridge PRISM
>
> rowena at blueridgeprism.org
>
>
>
> Blue Ridge PRISM
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblueridgeprism.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=CxcS3qtD70%2B2ZlhDu1jMzJ2nsc9gja2uT0atvm6N%2FPo%3D&reserved=0>
>  is a partnership for regional invasive species management in Virginia.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 6:09 PM <maipc-request at lists.maipc.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Nomenclature (Muth, Norris (MUTH))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2022 23:07:53 +0000
> From: "Muth, Norris (MUTH)" <MUTH at juniata.edu>
> To: "MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org" <maipc at lists.maipc.org>
> Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Nomenclature
> Message-ID:
>         <
> MN2PR15MB362942627132B644883AD22DC80D9 at MN2PR15MB3629.namprd15.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Patricia,
> I?m a big fan of all the good work you?re doing. Thanks for brining up
> this important and interesting subject.
>
> Lots of the words that figure into both common and scientific names are
> derogatory and/or offensive. In most of the cases below I have mixed
> feelings about searching for alternate common names (with the exception of
> bittersweet which I have seen some preferring the term Asiatic
> bittersweet). I know that in other contexts (e.g. COVID and flu, etc.) some
> people have tried (and sometimes succeeded) to turn the names of regions
> into something with negative connotations. In the recent case of the
> coronavirus outbreak some people chose specifically to use terminology that
> wasn?t common parlance to stoke these negative associations. Thankfully, I
> don?t see the parallel between that abhorrent behavior and the botanical
> examples below.
>
> To me, the names Japanese stiltgrass and the like merely refer to
> locations that the species originate from (likely somewhat inaccurately ?
> but being accurate with biological names is a different problem). We can
> all agree that there?s nothing offensive about being from Japan, China,
> Norway, or anywhere. What would definitely be troubling is if people were
> pushing messages that these are anything other than purely descriptive when
> using these terms. I admit that could certainly be possible, but I haven?t
> yet seen that myself.
>
> What I certainly want to avoid is using offensive terminology to describe
> plants (and anything else), and I think people are doing great work in
> places to address that (e.g. spongy moth). I also want to avoid (and I know
> very well that you aren?t suggesting this yourself ? but it could arise
> from renaming efforts) the idea that being from any of these countries is a
> bad thing.
>
> I also want to avoid unnecessary confusion around invasive species listing
> and management, which could be an unfortunate byproduct of renaming species
> that are still for sale. If someone can buy Norway maple, I want to make
> sure I?m able to tell them what to avoid in the same easy-to-understand
> terms.
>
> If there is more light to be shed on this discussion I would be grateful
> to hear them. Thanks again for bringing up this interesting and important
> issue.
>
> Norris
>
>
> ?
> Norris Z. Muth, Ph.D. (he/him)
> Juniata College
> Zoom meeting<https://juniata.zoom.us/my/muthlab
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fjuniata.zoom.us%2Fmy%2Fmuthlab&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FnfLrnaTMMemzEHNfn7eZ4VWB5khEXh5rLNcJ8Rg4AA%3D&reserved=0>
> >
> muthlab.org
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmuthlab.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3lgWdqkfMioYXxU2TpjpXD00UVHOshI8x9yctayftRg%3D&reserved=0>
> <http://muthlab.org/
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmuthlab.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3lgWdqkfMioYXxU2TpjpXD00UVHOshI8x9yctayftRg%3D&reserved=0>
> >
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: MAIPC <maipc-bounces at lists.maipc.org> on behalf of Greenberg,
> Patricia <Patricia.Greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2022 10:15:58 AM
> To: MAIPC at Lists.maipc.org <maipc at lists.maipc.org>
> Subject: [MAIPC] Nomenclature
>
> CAUTION: External Email
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> I?m continuing a conversation about the names of invasive species that
> feel insensitive to use. Recently, Virginia Master Naturalists held a
> webinar on this topic (which I haven?t watched yet).
>
>
>
> What's in a Name? Thoughtful Nomenclature Makes a Difference
> Presenter: Angela Gupta, University of Minnesota Extension
> Recorded: 10 November 2022
> Watch the video<
> https://video.vt.edu/media/VMN+CE+WebinarA+What%27s+In+a+NameF+Thoughtful+Nomenclature+Makes+a+Difference/1_r4imzpls
> <https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvideo.vt.edu%2Fmedia%2FVMN%2BCE%2BWebinarA%2BWhat%2527s%2BIn%2Ba%2BNameF%2BThoughtful%2BNomenclature%2BMakes%2Ba%2BDifference%2F1_r4imzpls&data=05%7C01%7Crod.simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7C025eac6dac44414e13c308dad245f81a%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C638053495240133392%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WhjH%2FH6hkj%2BDHo1y8EYXuHp2xeBRMxQAV2ulzoqfhgM%3D&reserved=0>>
> (Note: this version of the video has machine-generated captions. Caption
> editing is in progress, and the new version with edited captions will be
> posted here in approximately two weeks.)
>
>
>
>
>
> I am planning to work with our botanist to find names for invasives that
> reference their location of origin, such as:
>
> Oriental bittersweet
>
> Japanese stiltgrass
>
> Japanese/Chinese wisterias
>
> Chinese Holly
>
> Japanese Holly
>
> And others
>
>
>
> My question to you is if you or people you know have started these
> conversations and if so, what names are you using/changing?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Patricia Pearl Greenberg
> Ecologist II
>
> Invasive Management Area (IMA) Program Manager
>
> Natural Resource Branch
>
> Fairfax County Park Authority
>
> Office: 703-324-8673
>
> patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov<mailto:
> patricia.greenberg at fairfaxcounty.gov>
>
> (She/Her/Hers)
>
>
>
> ISA Certified Arborist, MA-6067A
>
> ISA Tree Risk Assessment Qualified
>
> _______________________________________________
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> MAIPC at lists.maipc.org
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>
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