<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-size: 13px;color: rgb(0, 0, 0);font-family: arial, sans-serif;">Thanks Rod for your experience with Fluazifop. Good news on respiratory problems with Fluazifop--breathing Setho or Cletho fumes all day can be pretty unpleasant! And, perhaps because Setho is weaker than Cletho on perennials, this is why I continue to get patch survival on wavyleaf. <div><br></div><div>Perhaps others have suggestions for other grass-specifics that are relatively easy on native perennials. The most challenging situations with stiltgrass for me are in wet floodplain areas where setho and cletho products shouldn't be sprayed (the label indicates Fluazifop is NOT aquatic-safe either--are there any?), as well as areas where it's mixed with Leersia or Dichanthelium species, which I'd rather leave alone. On the latter I have cut it low before seed production in late August (where the plants are up on stilts), or pulled and bagged it if the area's small enough. Bush hogs and string trimmers, where possible....<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Jim</div><br><blockquote style="padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px; border-left: #0000ff 2px solid; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,sans-serif; color: black;">-----Original Message-----
<br>From: Rod Simmons <rod.simmons@alexandriava.gov>
<br>Sent: Sep 23, 2019 11:06 AM
<br>To: Jim Hurley <jehurley@mindspring.com>
<br>Cc: "lee@ipc.us.com" <lee@ipc.us.com>, Eileen Grant <granfling@aol.com>, Susan Gitlin <susan.mclaughlin@alumni.stanford.edu>, "alex@ipc.us.com" <alex@ipc.us.com>, MAIPC Listserve <maipc@lists.maipc.org>, "jimclark5@comcast.net" <jimclark5@comcast.net>, "Mark <mark_frey@nps. gov="">
Frey" <mark_frey@nps.gov>, "Hughes, Jake <jake_hughes@nps.gov>
(jake_hughes@nps.gov)" <jake_hughes@nps.gov>, Jil Swearingen <jilswearingen@gmail.com>, Kayla Lynch <kayla@ipc.us.com>, Lee Patrick <lee@ipc.us.com>
<br>Subject: RE: [MAIPC] Removing stiltgrass after it has gone to seed
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Hi Jim,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">This is the first time we’ve used
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Ornamec – Fluzifop-P-butyl 1.70% -
</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">for <i>Microstegium</i>. </span>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">A respirator is not listed as required PPE on the label, nor are respiratory problems indicated with its use.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Ornamec 170 Grass Herbicide:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjznMWY6dPkAhXHm-AKHdOeDc04ChAWMAZ6BAgFEAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcru66.cahe.wsu.edu%2F~picol%2Fpdf%2FWA%2F21279.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3WzO4Fs4-yaEt5CZMM803c">http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjznMWY6dPkAhXHm-AKHdOeDc04ChAWMAZ6BAgFEAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcru66.cahe.wsu.edu%2F~picol%2Fpdf%2FWA%2F21279.pdf&usg=AOvVaw3WzO4Fs4-yaEt5CZMM803c</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Because <i>Microstegium vimineum</i> is an annual grass, less product is needed vs. perennial grasses.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Ornamec is evidently safer to use than Sethoxydim – trade names: Some trade names include Aljaden, Alloxol S, BAS 9052, Checkmate, Expand, Fervinal, Grasidim, Nabu, NP-55, Poast, Tritex-Extra, and
Vantage – but have attached Mark Frey’s paper on the use of Sethoxydim for conceptual purposes. Ornamec has been around a long time and is a landscaper’s staple. It should be just as effective against
<i>Microstegium</i>, and probably <i>Oplismenus</i>, as Sethoxydim and others, but without the respiratory threats.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Ornamec is about twice the cost of Vantage, however.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">I agree with Johnny that a weak 0.5% solution of surfactantless glyphosate (i.e., Rodeo) is probably just as good, in the balance, for
<i>Microstegium</i> as grass-specific herbicides. Certainly not the case with Wavyleaf though!
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">Will let everyone know how Ornamec performed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">All the best,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">___________________________<o:p></o:p></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">Rod Simmons<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">Natural Resource Manager / Plant Ecologist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">Natural Resources Division<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">Department of Recreation, Parks & Cultural Activities<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">City of Alexandria, Virginia<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">2900-A Business Center Drive<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">Alexandria, VA 22314<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">office phone: 703.746.4651<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F">mobile phone: 703.930.8972<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><a target="_blank" href="mailto:Rod.Simmons@alexandriava.gov">Rod.Simmons@alexandriava.gov</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><a target="_blank" href="http://alexandriava.gov/22560">http://alexandriava.gov/22560</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif;color:#10253F"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",serif"> Jim Hurley <jehurley@mindspring.com>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 22, 2019 6:49 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Rod Simmons <Rod.Simmons@alexandriava.gov><br>
<b>Cc:</b> lee@ipc.us.com; Eileen Grant <granfling@aol.com>; Susan Gitlin <susan.mclaughlin@alumni.stanford.edu>; alex@ipc.us.com; MAIPC Listserve <maipc@lists.maipc.org>; jimclark5@comcast.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [MAIPC] Removing stiltgrass after it has gone to seed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Rod,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I've been using Sethoxydim in POAST, as well as Clethodim 2E. Have you found better performance with Ornamec and fluazipop products? Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">-----Original Message-----
<br>
From: Richard Gardner <br>
Sent: Sep 22, 2019 7:15 AM <br>
To: Diana Carter , Rod Simmons <br>
Cc: "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:lee@ipc.us.com">lee@ipc.us.com</a>" , Eileen Grant , Susan Gitlin , "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:alex@ipc.us.com">alex@ipc.us.com</a>" , MAIPC Listserve , "<a target="_blank" href="mailto:jimclark5@comcast.net">jimclark5@comcast.net</a>"
<br>
Subject: Re: [MAIPC] Removing stiltgrass after it has gone to seed <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Has anyone considered using horticultural vinegar? It is organic, biodegradable, easy to clean up and much less toxic than most agricultural chemicals.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">On Saturday, September 21, 2019, 09:50:29 PM EDT, Rod Simmons <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:Rod.Simmons@alexandriava.gov">Rod.Simmons@alexandriava.gov</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Thanks Susan - good work! This past week we have been foliar-treating Microstegium in the City of Alexandria, Virginia with grass-specific Ornamec (fluzipop),
instead of Vantage (sethoxydim).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Alternatively, Jim Clark and Eileen Grant hand-pulled and bagged a large patch of Microstegium from Forest Park.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">I consider the latter method ideal for smaller, incipient populations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">Rod<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> On Sep 21, 2019, at 9:07 PM, Diana Carter <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:dcarter1776@yahoo.com">dcarter1776@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> Hi Susan. I’m anxious to hear from those wiser than me, but I’ll share what I’ve done just based on my gut sense of it. First, I think there is a lot more
seed production pending based on what I’m seeing. So my sense is to get it out before the whole load drops. On bad infestations I have rolled it up to contain the seeds within the stalks. On milder infestations I have used a tub type container on its side
and pushed the stiltgrass in seed first. Then I’ve poured it into large bags which I sneak into the regular trash pickup.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> You make a good point about checking shoes afterwards. I will add that to my method. But I (like you) am hoping to learn from others and see what they are
doing at this time of the year. I suppose spraying may be an option but I never use herbicides. I have heard that glyphosate dries out cornstalks late in the season.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> Diana Carter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> On Sep 21, 2019, at 8:10 PM, Susan Gitlin <<a target="_blank" href="mailto:susan.mclaughlin@alumni.stanford.edu">susan.mclaughlin@alumni.stanford.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> Hi. Today I was at a property that is built on and into the edge of national forest land, outside of Waynesboro, VA. This property has some new buildings
around which I noticed a bunch of stiltgrass. The forest land surrounding these buildings looked clean of any infestations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> I mentioned this to the property owner, and he was sincere in his interest in removing the Microstegium. I could not stay there to do the removal myself
at the time, but I promised him I would send him information on how to do it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> However, the plant is now in seed, and all information that I have about stiltgrass recommends removal or weed whacking prior to seed development. That makes
sense, of course, but what should I recommend to the property owner? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> a) That he remove and bag it this year? Could that lead to additional spread of the seeds via shoes, bags, etc.?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> b) Or should he wait until next year, thus allowing a thousand plants to release their seeds?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> Please share your wisdom.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> --Susan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> MAIPC mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">>
<a target="_blank" href="mailto:MAIPC@lists.maipc.org">MAIPC@lists.maipc.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> _______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">> MAIPC mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A">MAIPC mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a target="_blank" href="mailto:MAIPC@lists.maipc.org">MAIPC@lists.maipc.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A"><a target="_blank" href="https://gcc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.maipc.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmaipc-maipc.org&data=02%7C01%7CRod.Simmons%40alexandriava.gov%7Cae111dff942e4a91d47508d73faf1d01%7Cfeaa9b3143754aeeadccc76ad32a890b%7C0%7C0%7C637047893654764707&sdata=4I0mcjKwFdE5ydwVTDQi8Q3ElCNeS0TTBhoVSk7otXw%3D&reserved=0">http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</blockquote>
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</lee@ipc.us.com></kayla@ipc.us.com></jilswearingen@gmail.com></jake_hughes@nps.gov></jake_hughes@nps.gov></mark_frey@nps.gov></mark_frey@nps.></jimclark5@comcast.net></maipc@lists.maipc.org></alex@ipc.us.com></susan.mclaughlin@alumni.stanford.edu></granfling@aol.com></lee@ipc.us.com></jehurley@mindspring.com></rod.simmons@alexandriava.gov></blockquote></div></div></body></html>