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<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Unfortunately, what was a name for getting the job done or helping those with the 'Latin and Greek' issues has now become a political one. Politics have found their way into our 'sacred' botanical library. The name 'common ivy' has been introduced by our UK friends where <span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Libre Baskerville, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; letter-spacing: -0.1px;">(</span><em style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Libre Baskerville, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; letter-spacing: -0.1px;">Hedera helix</em><span style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Libre Baskerville, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 17px; letter-spacing: -0.1px;">) is really native - throughout Europe as well. To them, it really is 'common'. To us, it remains an invasive species no matter what one attempts to redefine it as. The same applies to </span><span style="color: rgb(77, 81, 86); font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">Microstegium vimineum which of course is called Japanese Stilt Grass - something the Japanese do not appreciate either as it name is generally followed by a lot of cursing, dislike, out and out. Microstegium is found as a native throughout South East Asia, East Asia thus its name; however, a better common name might be 'Asian Packing Grass' since that is how the loathsome stuff was introduced as well as by some misinformed landscapers who thought it would be erosion control. When I gave service in Asia, I remember thinking gratefully that the US did not have the stuff- well 40 years later and guess what? Maybe, we can get away from calling invasive species by their origin point but I think it is better that we leave it as is - as it helps people who do not even 'hear' the botanical latin and greek when I attempt to use it in definition. On occasion, I have seen eyes bug out..........Kathryn Peterson Lambert</span></div><div><br></div>
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On Friday, August 25, 2023, 04:07:01 PM EDT, <maipc-request@lists.maipc.org> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Send MAIPC mailing list submissions to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:maipc@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">maipc@lists.maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:maipc-request@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">maipc-request@lists.maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">You can reach the person managing the list at<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <a href="mailto:maipc-owner@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">maipc-owner@lists.maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br></div><div dir="ltr">than "Re: Contents of MAIPC digest..."<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Today's Topics:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"> 1. Re: About English ivy, Common ivy, other Hedera species,<br></div><div dir="ltr"> genomics... (frazmo)<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">----------------------------------------------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Message: 1<br></div><div dir="ltr">Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2023 08:56:48 -0400<br></div><div dir="ltr">From: frazmo <<a href="mailto:frazmo@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">frazmo@gmail.com</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">To: MARGARET CHATHAM <<a href="mailto:margaret.chatham@verizon.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">margaret.chatham@verizon.net</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Cc: MAIPC Listserve <<a href="mailto:maipc@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">maipc@lists.maipc.org</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Re: [MAIPC] About English ivy, Common ivy, other Hedera<br></div><div dir="ltr"> species, genomics...<br></div><div dir="ltr">Message-ID:<br></div><div dir="ltr"> <CAOO+nP_PEMFTqdx8Berbn+=99JrburAEp+4ytP96rm4L+c3sgg@mail.gmail.com><br></div><div dir="ltr">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Margaret, belated thanks for your response. Of course I agree with you<br></div><div dir="ltr">about the "common name" problem or challenge. (I began to help wrestling<br></div><div dir="ltr">with the unique identifier issue many years ago and was involved in the<br></div><div dir="ltr">creation of the Integrated Taxonomic Information System and later GBIF.org<br></div><div dir="ltr">). I also received off-list some extremely helpful information from Alan<br></div><div dir="ltr">Whittemore that discusses some of the genomics and comments on the<br></div><div dir="ltr">invasiveness of several Hedera species. If anyone is interested in that<br></div><div dir="ltr">please feel free to reach out to me directly. I would summarize that it<br></div><div dir="ltr">sounds like most of the Hedera found invading in our area is H. helix.<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Best and cheers, Steve<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 6:12?PM MARGARET CHATHAM <<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:margaret.chatham@verizon.net" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">margaret.chatham@verizon.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Back when I first heard about H hibernica, I looked for the little hairs<br></div><div dir="ltr">> that were supposed to show the difference, and found them. Then decided ti<br></div><div dir="ltr">> was more important to communicate easily than to be scientifically correct<br></div><div dir="ltr">> on this, & reverted to calling what we have H helix. As for ?Common ivy? my<br></div><div dir="ltr">> take is that iNaturalist tends to use the common name that is in use where<br></div><div dir="ltr">> the species is native ? so I assume that in England they call it Common Ivy<br></div><div dir="ltr">> rather than English ivy. Oh, well. iNaturalist?s common names for exotics<br></div><div dir="ltr">> are full of things I?ve never heard anyone around here use ? and then<br></div><div dir="ltr">> there are the common names we use that were already in use for some other<br></div><div dir="ltr">> plant somewhere else in the world, so we get stuck with something weird<br></div><div dir="ltr">> just to be distinct. Again, oh, well: scientific names usually clear things<br></div><div dir="ltr">> up.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Margaret<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> On Aug 23, 2023, at 1:52 PM, frazmo <<a href="mailto:frazmo@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">frazmo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Hey y'all, so I've been thinking about my nemesis, what I've always called<br></div><div dir="ltr">> English ivy and considered to be Hedera helix in scientific binomial<br></div><div dir="ltr">> nomenclature. I have noticed that iNaturalist is now calling it Common<br></div><div dir="ltr">> ivy... I'm not sure how widespread that usage is. English ivy was what<br></div><div dir="ltr">> started me down the road to invasive whacking madness beginning several<br></div><div dir="ltr">> decades ago. It was kind of like a gateway drug that led me along to<br></div><div dir="ltr">> broader invasives/ecological restoration work in Arlington County, VA.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Anyway... Years ago I was told by an American Ivy Society person (yes,<br></div><div dir="ltr">> there is such an organization and they still exist!) that the invasive ivy<br></div><div dir="ltr">> in my Glencarlyn Park was not their beloved Hedera helix but rather H.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> hibernica. I thought at the time that this was a classic case of "Blame it<br></div><div dir="ltr">> on the Irish", but I digress. It does appear that H. hibernica is a valid<br></div><div dir="ltr">> species. However, as I recall, a key character to differentiate involves<br></div><div dir="ltr">> trichome structure, and that is getting awfully technical.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> So, getting to the point, I am curious about whether any of you folks, or<br></div><div dir="ltr">> anyone you know, has looked at Hedera species and drawn any conclusions. I<br></div><div dir="ltr">> am prepared to be open-minded that the major invasivity issue lies with H.<br></div><div dir="ltr">> hibernica -- if there is strong supporting evidence. I am especially<br></div><div dir="ltr">> interested in whether anyone has done genomic work on Hedera or is<br></div><div dir="ltr">> interested in looking at that. I would find genomic evidence convincing. I<br></div><div dir="ltr">> also hope that evidence will counter any attempts to muddy the waters.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Finally, I notice that the recent "Plant Invaders of Mid-Atlantic Natural<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Areas" field guide still uses the English ivy, H. helix nomenclature, but<br></div><div dir="ltr">> also states that "Two other species of Hedera are recognized as invasive in<br></div><div dir="ltr">> the U.S.: Atlantic ivy (H. hibernica), which is difficult to distinguish<br></div><div dir="ltr">> from English ivy, and Canary Island ivy (H. canariensis)."<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Thanks in advance for any information. And I will clarify that yes, I<br></div><div dir="ltr">> agree that ultimately it doesn't matter which Hedera a vine is; if it is<br></div><div dir="ltr">> invasive it needs to go.<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Best and cheers,<br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> Steve Young<br></div><div dir="ltr">> Arlington volunteer<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:Frazmo@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Frazmo@gmail.com</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">> _______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">> MAIPC mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="mailto:MAIPC@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MAIPC@lists.maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">> <a href="http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">><br></div><div dir="ltr">-------------- next part --------------<br></div><div dir="ltr">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br></div><div dir="ltr">URL: <<a href="http://lists.maipc.org/pipermail/maipc-maipc.org/attachments/20230825/84db78df/attachment-0001.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.maipc.org/pipermail/maipc-maipc.org/attachments/20230825/84db78df/attachment-0001.htm</a>><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Subject: Digest Footer<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________<br></div><div dir="ltr">MAIPC mailing list<br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:MAIPC@lists.maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">MAIPC@lists.maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lists.maipc.org/listinfo.cgi/maipc-maipc.org</a><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">------------------------------<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">End of MAIPC Digest, Vol 139, Issue 17<br></div><div dir="ltr">**************************************<br></div></div>
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