[MAIPC] About English ivy, Common ivy, other Hedera species, genomics...

[MARGARET CHATHAM]

Back when I first heard about H hibernica, I looked for the little hairs that were supposed to show the difference, and found them. Then decided ti was more important to communicate easily than to be scientifically correct on this, & reverted to calling what we have H helix. As for “Common ivy” my take is that iNaturalist tends to use the common name that is in use where the species is native — so I assume that in England they call it Common Ivy rather than English ivy. Oh, well. iNaturalist’s common names for exotics  are full of things I’ve never heard anyone around here use — and then there are the common names we use that were already in use for some other plant somewhere else in the world, so we get stuck with something weird just to be distinct. Again, oh, well: scientific names usually clear things up.

Margaret

> On Aug 23, 2023, at 1:52 PM, frazmo <frazmo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hey y'all, so I've been thinking about my nemesis, what I've always called English ivy and considered to be Hedera helix in scientific binomial nomenclature. I have noticed that iNaturalist is now calling it Common ivy... I'm not sure how widespread that usage is. English ivy was what started me down the road to invasive whacking madness beginning several decades ago. It was kind of like a gateway drug that led me along to broader invasives/ecological restoration work in Arlington County, VA.
> 
> Anyway... Years ago I was told by an American Ivy Society person (yes, there is such an organization and they still exist!) that the invasive ivy in my Glencarlyn Park was not their beloved Hedera helix but rather H. hibernica. I thought at the time that this was a classic case of "Blame it on the Irish", but I digress. It does appear that H. hibernica is a valid species. However, as I recall, a key character to differentiate involves trichome structure, and that is getting awfully technical.
> 
> So, getting to the point, I am curious about whether any of you folks, or anyone you know, has looked at Hedera species and drawn any conclusions. I am prepared to be open-minded that the major invasivity issue lies with H. hibernica -- if there is strong supporting evidence. I am especially interested in whether anyone has done genomic work on Hedera or is interested in looking at that. I would find genomic evidence convincing. I also hope that evidence will counter any attempts to muddy the waters.
> 
> Finally, I notice that the recent "Plant Invaders of Mid-Atlantic Natural Areas" field guide still uses the English ivy, H. helix nomenclature, but also states that "Two other species of Hedera are recognized as invasive in the U.S.: Atlantic ivy (H. hibernica), which is difficult to distinguish from English ivy, and Canary Island ivy (H. canariensis)."
> 
> Thanks in advance for any information. And I will clarify that yes, I agree that ultimately it doesn't matter which Hedera a vine is; if it is invasive it needs to go.
> 
> Best and cheers,
> 
> Steve Young
> Arlington volunteer
> Frazmo at gmail.com <mailto:Frazmo at gmail.com>
> 
> 
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