[MAIPC] About English ivy, Common ivy, other Hedera species, genomics...

[frazmo]

Margaret, belated thanks for your response. Of course I agree with you
about the "common name" problem or challenge. (I began to help wrestling
with the unique identifier issue many years ago and was involved in the
creation of the Integrated Taxonomic Information System and later GBIF.org
). I also received off-list some extremely helpful information from Alan
Whittemore that discusses some of the genomics and comments on the
invasiveness of several Hedera species. If anyone is interested in that
please feel free to reach out to me directly. I would summarize that it
sounds like most of the Hedera found invading in our area is H. helix.

Best and cheers,  Steve

On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 6:12 PM MARGARET CHATHAM <
margaret.chatham at verizon.net> wrote:

> Back when I first heard about H hibernica, I looked for the little hairs
> that were supposed to show the difference, and found them. Then decided ti
> was more important to communicate easily than to be scientifically correct
> on this, & reverted to calling what we have H helix. As for “Common ivy” my
> take is that iNaturalist tends to use the common name that is in use where
> the species is native — so I assume that in England they call it Common Ivy
> rather than English ivy. Oh, well. iNaturalist’s common names for exotics
>  are full of things I’ve never heard anyone around here use — and then
> there are the common names we use that were already in use for some other
> plant somewhere else in the world, so we get stuck with something weird
> just to be distinct. Again, oh, well: scientific names usually clear things
> up.
>
> Margaret
>
> On Aug 23, 2023, at 1:52 PM, frazmo <frazmo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey y'all, so I've been thinking about my nemesis, what I've always called
> English ivy and considered to be Hedera helix in scientific binomial
> nomenclature. I have noticed that iNaturalist is now calling it Common
> ivy... I'm not sure how widespread that usage is. English ivy was what
> started me down the road to invasive whacking madness beginning several
> decades ago. It was kind of like a gateway drug that led me along to
> broader invasives/ecological restoration work in Arlington County, VA.
>
> Anyway... Years ago I was told by an American Ivy Society person (yes,
> there is such an organization and they still exist!) that the invasive ivy
> in my Glencarlyn Park was not their beloved Hedera helix but rather H.
> hibernica. I thought at the time that this was a classic case of "Blame it
> on the Irish", but I digress. It does appear that H. hibernica is a valid
> species. However, as I recall, a key character to differentiate involves
> trichome structure, and that is getting awfully technical.
>
> So, getting to the point, I am curious about whether any of you folks, or
> anyone you know, has looked at Hedera species and drawn any conclusions. I
> am prepared to be open-minded that the major invasivity issue lies with H.
> hibernica -- if there is strong supporting evidence. I am especially
> interested in whether anyone has done genomic work on Hedera or is
> interested in looking at that. I would find genomic evidence convincing. I
> also hope that evidence will counter any attempts to muddy the waters.
>
> Finally, I notice that the recent "Plant Invaders of Mid-Atlantic Natural
> Areas" field guide still uses the English ivy, H. helix nomenclature, but
> also states that "Two other species of Hedera are recognized as invasive in
> the U.S.: Atlantic ivy (H. hibernica), which is difficult to distinguish
> from English ivy, and Canary Island ivy (H. canariensis)."
>
> Thanks in advance for any information. And I will clarify that yes, I
> agree that ultimately it doesn't matter which Hedera a vine is; if it is
> invasive it needs to go.
>
> Best and cheers,
>
> Steve Young
> Arlington volunteer
> Frazmo at gmail.com
>
>
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